DR. ANTHONY FAUCI: You know, Senator, I’d be happy at a different time to sit down and go over detail. You’ve said a lot of different things. You’ve compared us to Sweden and there are a lot of differences. And you said, “Well, there are a lot of differences between Sweden.” But compare Sweden’s death rate to other comparable Scandinavian countries, it’s worse. So I don’t think it’s appropriate to compare Sweden with us. Yes, I think in the beginning, we’ve done things based on the knowledge we had at the time and hopefully, and I am, and my colleagues are humble enough and modest enough to realize that as new data comes, you make different recommendations. But I don’t regret saying that the only way we could have really stopped the explosion of infection was by essentially, I want to say shutting down-
The guidelines that we have put together from the task force of the four or five things of masks, social distancing, outdoors more than indoors, avoiding crowds and washing hands.
PAUL: Or they’ve developed enough community immunity that they’re no longer having the pandemic because they have enough immunity in New York City to actually stop it.
FAUCI: I challenge that Senator.
Please, sir, I would like to be able to do this because this happens with Senator Rand all the time. You were not listening to what the director of the C.D.C. said, that in New York, it’s about 22%. If you believe 22% is herd immunity, I believe you’re alone in that.
PAUL: There’s also the preexisting immunity of those who have cross-reactivity, which is about a third of the public in many estimates studies which would actually get —
FAUCI: I’d like to talk to you about that also because there was a study that recently came out that preexisting immunity to coronaviruses that are common cold do not cross react with the COVID-19.